They were two men seemingly destined for bigger, better things and, perhaps ultimately, a head-to-head race for the White House.

One of them was the governor of California, who was very eager to run for president.

The problem was that his party already had a political veteran as its leader who was the strong favorite to come out on top.

The other was a great state

A political celebrity whose path to the Oval Office also seemed blocked

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established party.

And so, with little to lose, Ronald Reagan and Robert F. Kennedy agreed to a debate.

It was May 1967 and if the circumstances are reflective of today’s Gavin Newsom versus Ron DeSantis future showdown, it just goes to show that there is actually very little new under the sun.

Politically anyway.

In a certain group of people who follow campaigns as others are enthusiastic about World Cup football, the idea of ​​a face-to-face confrontation between governments is present. California’s Newsom and Florida’s DeSantis are virtually irresistible.

The two act as totems of their respective factions. Newsom the slick epitome of left-wing liberalism, DeSantis the combative personification of red state conservatism.

They have repeatedly traveled long distances, uttered insults, and hurt each other with well-publicized stunts.

Newsom made a trolling campaign across Florida, stopping at a college campus where DeSantis was the target of his “war on woke.”

DeSantis dumped a dozen Hispanic asylum seekers in Sacramento and filmed a pop-up campaign spot in San Francisco, the city Newsom ran as mayor, attacking “leftist policies” that have supposedly turned the city into an urban hellscape.

They’ve sniffed and sniffed about the terms of a debate.

“Shut up or shut up,” Newsom taunted through a spokesman for the governor.

“Let’s finish it,” DeSantis said nonsense.

But for all the swagger and the swinging between principles, there’s serious reason to wonder if such a meeting will happen anytime soon, if ever.

There’s little reason for Newsom not to show up. A debate would allow him to enjoy the national attention he craves, instead of having to grapple with San Francisco’s fentanyl crisis or fumbling with state legislators.

The calculation for DeSantis is different. As a declared presidential candidate, he must weigh whether to share the stage and elevate someone whose designs for the White House are pure fantasy for now.

Most likely, DeSantis’ decision will depend on the position of the current Florida governor after the first two debates with his Republican rivals.

The opening round is scheduled for Wednesday night in Milwaukee. The second is scheduled for September 27 at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley. The party’s petulant frontrunner Donald Trump has said he will skip both dates.

When California’s Republican Reagan and Democratic Senator Kennedy of New York met, it wasn’t a debate as we’ve come to think.

(Even today’s presidential “debates” aren’t so much debates as forums where candidates line up and answer questions, or dodge them, delivering prefabricated zingers aimed at creating a viral moment.)

Reagan and Kennedy appeared on a split screen, the governor from a studio in Sacramento and the senator in Washington, DC. The subject was the Vietnam War or, more specifically, The Image of America and Youth of the World.

According to the format, the two politicians responded to questions from an international panel of university students gathered in London. (One of them, Princeton’s Bill Bradley, would go on to achieve NBA stardom, a career in the U.S. Senate, and a failed presidential bid in 2000.)

Reagan and Kennedy didn’t so much associate with each other as knocking the barbs off their hostile inquisitors.

“I believe the Vietnam War is illegal, immoral, politically unjustifiable and economically motivated. Can any of you agree?” asked one of their first questioners.

The candidates could not agree, or preferred to disagree, with the premise, although Reagan was, unsurprisingly, the more aggressive of the two. (Not much later, Kennedy would run for president as an anti-war candidate.)

Reagan’s performance attracted widespread attention.

Only a few months in office, the neophyte governor displayed a verbal agility and command of foreign policy that did not surprise many observers for the first or last time in his political career.

As Newsweek put it: For those unfamiliar with Reagan’s senior class knowledge, the ease with which he answered questions about Vietnam may have come as a revelation.

Kennedy, for his part, meandered through much of the 50-minute exchange, looking gruff and, at times, a little bored. He was widely seen as the loser.

Not that it all mattered all that much.

Kennedy would go on to compete vigorously for the Democratic nomination after President Johnson’s astonishing decision to step aside and not seek re-election. His candidacy, of course, was cut short by a killer’s bullets.

Reagan would fail miserably in his 1968 attempt to snatch the Republican nomination from Richard Nixon. He lost the Republican nomination battle again in 1976 before finally claiming the presidency in 1980.

A Newsom-DeSantis debate would certainly have its interesting and entertaining moments, as each opposing clash creates sparks.

But it’s not likely to change the course of the 2024 campaign, much less any battle in 2028 or beyond, nor would it lead Newsom or DeSantis to the White House.

Political theater can be entertaining. But even Reagan needed more than a one night boffo performance to become president.